Produced by Jon Child

Transcript of Program 29, 1985

Some of Julie’s early work in channel from 1985 where Micciah answers questions from the class:
• How does obsessive hedonism and pleasure-seeking contribute to destructive patterns on the planet? View Section
• What does the disease AIDS mean to us as a culture and why is it prevalent in the homosexual community? View Section
• Why is separation so difficult and sad, especially when it’s part of illness and death? View Section
Is there such a thing as healthy dependency? View Section

   Micciah:  We greet you all, dear friends.

   Julie:  We do greet you, indeed.  This is Micciah Channel, and I’m Julie Winter.  Micciah is an energy entity who works with me while I’m in trance,  and while I’m in the trance state I have access to a point of view that seems to come from a non-physical realm.  This series of programs is drawn primarily from videotapes taken during my regular classes.  We want to expand our circle, and include your energy and interest in our work.


   This program is about relationships, about the fear of loss in relationship, about hedonism and sexuality, and about death and AIDS which is quite a lot to deal with in one program.
   The first question has two facets. One is about hedonism, and Micciah talks about hedonism as an apparently obsessive seeking after pleasure which is truly a projection of other needs into the sexual arena. And then talks about the fear of loss that follows sexual relationships, or often is engendered in sexual relationships and how we make people into things, and how that’s exacerbated in some sexual contacts.


   Micciah: When there is excessive Hedonism, or obsessive pleasure-seeking, as we said, is not pleasure, it is constant stimulation to assuage some need that is not really being met, and you think more will do it. But it won’t. And everyone running for more and more and more itself becomes a kind of life-denying trance. If you imagine one person multiplied by many people, all saying together, “More More More More.” You know the voraciousness is fed by some trance-like state where real appreciation is not getting in, yes? It is not making its presence felt. We are sure you can all remember times of opening, when you suddenly became aware of life’s magnificence, ordinary life. If you have a near-miss in an accident, and get out of it, suddenly everything seems so dear to you. And truly it is, all the time. So it is a question of staying awake, of probing into the levels deeper than the talking self, the chattering mind, and going broader. In asking yourselves to give, you will notice where you are attached and also, while you’re doing this, be aware of what you appreciate. And for heaven’s sake, give away what you are not using! That is living with abundance.
   Sex. We have not forgotten. In your group beliefs, in your culture, when there is a sexual exchange, often the threat of loss rises up. “Now I have had this exchange with you, I must not lose you.”
   Well, sex can be anything from profound and illuminating... It is a great healing force, you know, because all of the energy when you are really attuned sexually, all the energy is moving; it is a great cleansing and healing force. But it can be an expression of so many different things. You always refer to sex as if it were an item. That is a misperception. And people are not things. When you make someone into something, then you want to hold onto the thing, and sex it what makes you think or feel you have the right to hold on. Really it is a fear of abandonment and of loss. So as soon as loss is threatened, what happens? Attachment comes up. “Now I have shared with you sexually, well then you must be here!” Because this has happened. That is a frame you hold it in. We are not saying that sexuality should be used casually, either. But again, what is the consciousness of the exchange? Many of your interpersonal exchanges have sex as the coin of the realm, and it is not really about sexual exchange at all. Other needs become sexualized, the need for closeness, the need for intimacy, the need for contact, the need for reassurance. So the feelings, instead of being acknowledged for what they really are, get translated or misinterpreted, they are not really genital in origin. Sex is a great gift from All That Is to you. So how do you want to use a gift? How? It is a gift for you to use, to celebrate, and to enjoy, in many different ways, many ways. In friendship, in passion, sometimes for comforting, sometimes meditatively, ecstatically. So many possibilities! Not just one “thing” but a whole realm of potential. And since it is the coin of the realm, it gets confused with ownership, yes? Your expression, “You are mine.” or, “We belong to each other.” confuses commitment with ownership.
   So... You also, as a culture, have very funny ideas about sexual needs. What’s normal? How many times? The national average. Not a great help to opening up to experience.


   Julie: We’ve been talking about the projection of other feelings into the sexual arena, and now Micciah is going to talk about AIDS. One of the things that he says is, “Do you understand the difference between obsessive behavior that is not even sexual,” that is another feeling projected into the sexual arena, and real sexual yearning and contact? “Obsessive sexuality is often not an intimate contact, that is primarily sexual, but a yearning, or an anger, or a proving of something, a need that focuses on genital, erotic acting-out.” He talks about AIDS as a group function, a function of the totality of consciousness about repressive sexuality or enforced promiscuous sexuality, and he says that we have a group responsibility in healing it.


   Micciah: Do you have one more question?

   Darlene: Would you talk about homosexuality, whether it’s just an extension of normal behavior, and about its relationship with the disease AIDS?

   Micciah: Yes. Sexuality has many faces, and what is central in a relationship is not whether your partner is a man or a woman but whether you love them. Love can be developed in very many ways. The outbreak of this disease, AIDS, is not because people are homosexual, but rather that in the consciousness of that community there has been enforced promiscuity, obsessiveness, and difficulty, partially because there is so much rejection of homosexuals.
   Informing deep, loving relationships.
   When the heart and the root are ruptured, when the connection between the heart center and the root center is violated. And when intimacy is not intimacy, when vulnerability is sacrificed to what is obsessive behavior acted out in the sexual arena - it is not even sexual. Do you understand the difference? It is often not an intimate contact that is primarily sexual but a yearning, an anger, a proving of something, a need that focuses on genital, erotic acting-out. We will give you an example. It is not sexual, even though it is genital, in the same way that people eat for a reason other than being hungry; the body is not really hungry, it doesn’t need any more food. Just so, sometimes people act out with their genitals for other reasons. And this is rampant in the homosexual community, much more so, we think, among men than women, who tend more to make, because of their acculturation, real relationships. So in this violent acting-out, in this terrible yearning and need, the disease is a symptom of damage that has been done at the emotional level, that was created out of all of your beliefs. AIDS is focused in the homosexual community because of their life style, but it is an expression of the group. It is an expression of the way that sexual acting-out becomes dangerous, not real intimacy. Just as if you were to eat and eat and eat, until you burst, until your organs were diseased. It is the acting-out. Do you understand?

   Darlene: Yes.

   Micciah: And the heart center has been closed often, and the body has been weakened by the use of drugs that rake the adrenal glands, among other things, that damage resistance. The drugs are used in conjunction with the sexual behavior because the emotions have been distorted. This is not all homosexuals. There are many, many men who love each other deeply, and they are all now frightened and being affected by this group expression which is to call your attention of all of you, all of you, to what happens when there is either repression or forced promiscuity, when the heart and the root are separated and there is no room, there is no emotional spaciousness, for the contemplation of intimacy and what that contact means. This disease also appears in bodies that are damaged by the acting-out of drug abuse. It is seen in other countries, it is not a new disease. And people develop immunities to it.
   So remember that you are all one, and what is happening “over there” is happening “over here.”
   The body has a tremendous natural urge toward health. And disease is to show you something, to teach you something, to alert you to something. And the alert is, “What does it mean to be intimate with another human being?” And it can mean many different things. What does it mean to you? And are you being in your own truth with it? That is the question.


Julie: We’ve been talking about what happens when one set of feelings are projected into another arena, let’s say sexuality. And now Micciah is going to answer a question about separation and separation anxieties in relationships. And also, the way in which death becomes the great fear and the reason for withholding in the context of a relationship, that we fear the other person’s death and that abandonment.


   Mark: The next question, Micciah, is about separation and specifically why it’s so difficult. And with the attachments to death and to illness. How it’s a difficult thing. And the sadness of separation.

   Micciah: Yes. Well, we are going to separate different kinds of separation and separation anxieties, as we did with the word “conflict.” When there is incomplete development on the part of each person, then those needs which have not been fulfilled individually, personally, the power that has not been grown into, those needs are projected onto the other person. And your culture completely supports this dynamic. And you want to get from the other person what you cannot give yourself or give to yourself. This is a bad bargain. There are healthy dependencies, but I cannot get from you something that will fill me and make me complete. And if I wish that, then I will need you around, I will not be able to separate from you, and I will fear losing you, I will fear... I will fear your autonomy, which will come up in a question you are going to ask later.
   So when there is a lack of autonomy, of individuality, of individuation in the psychological maturation, then separation is very difficult. And at that level of difficulty, at that emotional and ego level of difficulty, one person will try to manipulate the other not to leave. Do you think you can keep someone from leaving you? If they want to leave? Don’t be ridiculous! It takes two to dance the dance of manipulation. So, in that case, separation is always seen as a threat.
   There are other kinds of fears around separation. You fear death. It seems absolute, and in a biological... in the physical sense it is absolute, but not in the spiritual sense, not even in the total energetic sense. But body to body. You are horrified by death in your culture. It is starting to change, we have talked about this often. Death is seen as a punishment. Death is seen as abandonment, which emotionally it is, but the person’s energies continue. The fear of death, which is the fear of loss, can be very detrimental to the growth of a relationship, because one or the other person will withhold deep feelings against the day when the other person might abandon them. Where, truly, is the power? It is in your connection to spirit which never abandons you and never leaves. All human relationship is ephemeral, at least it appears to be in the paradox of this physical realm. By nature it is ephemeral. So, the real power is in trusting the deep forces that endure forever. But the personality always must grapple with loss. It is a great teaching, yes? It is really the fear of separation that causes, or adds fuel to, the fears you have about what you call infidelity, which is a very interesting word.

   Lainie: Micciah, earlier you said something about, “There are healthful dependencies.”

   Micciah: Yes. You all need each other. And the trust that develops when one person in a loving relationship with another person, can depend on them, to be there, to help out, is very important. Developing that trust. Not the demand, “You’d better be there for me or else!” But a trust. To depend on someone to keep their word, to depend on their love, on their support, that’s healthy.


Julie: I want to remind you again that all of the information that’s delivered while I’m channeling is there to be examined and discussed. Go over it, take what’s useful, and let the rest go.
   Julie:  That’s all for the moment. At the end of class we discuss the information that Micciah has shared and talk about how to use it in ordinary life since all of this information was given to be used.
   Several final words. The thread that runs through my work of, which the channeling is one aspect, is healing. So, the thread of healing goes through my work with individuals, my teaching, my lecturing, my writing. And that healing, I believe, comes from a truthful exploration of one’s relationship with spirit. Spirit heals through us, and that healing enables us to be with the sacred nature of everyday life. I urge you to use your prayers and meditations toward experiencing the joy and sacred nature of life itself.

   Julie: “This channeling is meant to be a spiritual, emotional, intellec­tual, heartful, mindful journey that I share with another realm, that I share with my classes and that we all share with you. Please go over the material, evaluate it for yourself, and know what it is that you think about it.”