Produced by Jon Child

Transcript of Program 115, 1989


Some of Julie’s early work in channel from 1989 where Micciah discusses: Value of exercising “guided discernment.”
The death penalty: A “step away from the immense love of Spirit ... far into separation and despair.” War and ecological destruction are forms of the death penalty. “It is deeply sad.”
Does failure to prevent poverty “impede the evolution” (karma) of people who “die early of neglect or abuse?” No: you can starve people, thus affecting “everything” in the present, but you cannot stop anyone’s spiritual evolution except your own.
Can metaphysics and ecstatic modes of Christianity be combined? “Absolutely.” However, as with any teaching, one should beware of dogma, and look for one’s “personal truth.” “Then it will combine naturally with the truths in other disciplines for you.”

   Micciah: We greet you all, dear friends.

   Julie: We do greet you, indeed. This is Micciah Channel, and I’m Julie Winter. Micciah is an energy entity who works with me while I’m in trance, and while I’m in the trance state I have access to a point of view that seems to come from a non-physical realm. This series of programs is drawn primarily from videotapes taken during my regular classes. We want to expand our circle and include your energy and interest in our work.
   I want to thank all of you who have been watching and who have written to me. And what you are going to see is me, with my personality and intelligence, awareness, go into an altered state. And while I’m in that altered state, I join with other energies, or another energy, and produce the personality of Micciah. I have, in that state, an awareness that I don’t ordinarily have. And I’m going to respond to questions that my classes have asked me.


   Micciah: We greet you all, dear friends.
   And we are pleased to be with you this evening, and to work with your questioning minds and hearts, knowing that the exploration itself is life-affirming — that you are questioning, pressing out against the edges of what you know; questioning for yourselves. We urge you once again to evaluate, to assess, to be a discerning being about all of the information that you read, about whatever we say, about what other people say. The exercise of guided discernment is one that will awaken you out of patterns of sleepwalking, of automaticity.
   So, let us begin with your questions, please.

   Marian: I was really curious about what you thought of the death penalty.

   Micciah: If it were possible (it is possible!) — if it were happening that all beings were alert, awakened, to their oneness, and to the ecology of Spirit and the preciousness of life through that awareness, which can emerge as an affirmation, then there would be no question of putting people to death.
   We will say ... hmm. This is a very complex question.
   War is a death penalty — yes? War is a potential group death penalty. And you live on your planet at this time under the possible threat of a global death penalty.
   [Long pause]
   [Very quietly and sorrowfully] But the death penalty as a punishment ... it would be hard to tell you without making dreadful rending sounds — which we will spare you! — how dreadful (in the literal sense: full of dread) such a notion is, and how very, very far it is from what is possible for you as beings.
   It is a kind of last resort of righteousness, in its most contracted and hateful form. [Sigh]
   It is, ah — a misstep, a step away ... from the immense love of Spirit, a step that takes you ... far, far into separation and despair. It is a result of intense fear ... and violent self-hatred.
   And it has a long history. And it has been connected, in various cultures, with a variety of kinds of excitement. You know, people used to go to witness hangings — a sort of vile ... quasi-sexual celebration of violation ...
   And there is so much sadness for you, for the condition that creates this torment, as well as the torment of the earth being hanging, as it does, under this penalty. Even though, in the greatness of all compassion, the errors are forgiven before they happen, it is deeply sad. [Pause]
   It is not peculiar to your own culture, as you know. It has existed in many forms at all times. [Deep sigh]
   Do you wish to ask further about this?

   Marian: Yes — I’d like to ask — do you hold euthanasia in this same way? If someone is indeed terminally ill — it is not the same at all.

   Micciah: [Quickly] Oh, no, no. No. Not at all. Because it is that you have created artificial means of holding the body on the earth plane, out of a strange admixture of your terror and misunderstanding about physical death and your love of life — this [searches for words] paradoxical cocktail —


   — and you have created these miraculous mechanical means — yes! — that hold the physical body a prisoner long after it would naturally be released, then you are faced with the dilemma of what to do with people who have been pumped alive, and allowing them to leave the body.
   And we would say that it would be of great benefit to have groups of people, teams, who escorted people off, off this plane of action and into the next, chanting and meditating with them. Those who are trained, as they have been in other cultures, and as some of you are beginning to be — you and others like you — to shift your awareness so that you can escort the consciousness from here to there, so to speak; across the river, and into the tunnel, and toward the light.
   So — no, we are not at all against allowing people to leave the torment of a body that is long past functioning.
   We believe it is being done in the Netherlands — yes? — and perhaps in Scandinavia: counseling for people who are terminally ill, suffering, and in pain; that they are entitled to take medication that will — have an injection that will let them go.
   No, no; that is completely different. Unless it were to be used abusively in some demonic, ah — political stranglehold — but no; in the sense that you are asking, it’s a different question entirely.


Julie: This is a break for a moment. You’ve been watching Micciah Channel and I’d like you to go over the information, or maybe don’t go over the information. Stretch. Breathe. Get a sense of yourself in the slice of reality that you are in. Then we’re going to go back and look at some more Micciah Channel.


   Micciah: Please continue ...

   Jan: Micciah — in our culture, it (this is a follow-up to this last question) it seems that we — there are a finite number of dollars to spend on health care (looking at it from a practical viewpoint), and we spend a lot of money to keep very sick, terminally ill people in limbo.

   Micciah: Yes.

   Jan: And we don’t spend enough money on protecting the lives of little children who are born into great poverty and want. And these — so we’re not really protecting our children. Doesn’t this somehow have an effect on the group karma?

   Micciah: It has an effect on everything. It has an effect on — you don’t have to wait for karma in the sense that you are using karma, which is that it would appear at an apparently later time, yes? You don’t have to wait that long. It has an effect on your lives, and the quality of your lives, in the immediate present.
   [Pause] Yes.

   Jan: Well, the net effect of this — isn’t this impeding the evolution of a lot of people who are in the physical body and who are not then —

   Micciah: Well —

— able to complete their karma because they die early of neglect or abuse?

   Micciah: No, there is no such thing as dying before your time.
   There are a lot of assumptions in what you are saying. There are assumptions of a definition of karma, and, ah — an assumption that you can impede someone else’s development, which you cannot do. You can impede your own development. You can — your own movement can be — [searches for word] barricaded; but no one can stop your spiritual growth and change. Except you. And since you are living in an infinity of time and there is no particular hurry, it — it — the sense of it being an impedance in a linear frame, that will later appear as negative karma — we don’t believe in karma in — we would not define karma in exactly that way.
   You cannot ... stop someone else’s evolution. You can deny them food; you can create situations where they live in rat- infested homes; but you cannot stop their development. [Sigh]
   Please, go on.

   Maria: Can we combine the teachings of contemporary metaphysics with the Christian beliefs in faith and miracles?

   Micciah: Can you combine metaphysics with the Christian beliefs in miracles and in faith, in faith healing?

   Maria: Yes; with the Christian faith. Perhaps radical, dynamic Christianity.

   Micciah: Aaas long as you are, ah ... hmm. These are all very tricky questions!


   Even as we answer, it is — what we say is incorrect and incomplete, because we could go on and on about Marian’s question, and about your question, Jan, and the meaning of karma. We will try to address this, and, ah — simply acknowledge that the response is incomplete.
   First of all (again, to get into the assumptions): what are you assigning as Christianity? When you say that, you mean the beliefs that are, ah — described in Scripture, in the New Testament? There are so many varieties of Christianity: everything from the High Church of Rome to the Congregational Church, the Unity — the Church of Unity. They all refer to Scripture, although the Catholic Bible is different.

   Maria: Well, I’m definitely not talking about traditional, conservative Christianity. I had particular experience some time ago of Christianity in a very dynamic, alive, vibrant sort of grass-roots form that I had not experienced before. I’ve never experienced Christianity that way.

   Micciah: It was very much like what it was like to begin with. [Laughs]


   It was — you know — a radical movement of community. They were — the original Christians were certainly the hippies of their day. They lived in a communal environment, and they were ... celebratory and often ecstatic, in the literal sense.

   Maria: Yes, that’s what I mean. This was ecstatic in the literal sense.

   Micciah: Can you combine that with metaphysics? Absolutely. The — the catch —


   — the place where you will get caught is where the Christian teaching relies — the aspects of that particular teaching that rely — on material which for you is unexamined, which you have to take on faith. This goes back to what we said earlier about being discriminating, and about this being a time of finding the rightness, the alignment, the truthfulness, within yourself.
   So — to the extent that any teaching, be it radical Christianity or contemporary metaphysics, requires you to accept something without investigating it for yourself, it does not serve you.
   Metaphysics has its own dogma, although it is more — generally speaking — more open to experimentation; and, ah — there are some notions that come not really from the teachings of Christ: there are many that appear in Scripture that are, ah — like barnacles — attached to various Christian teachings in different ways. But if you examine the teaching for yourself, you can find the truth within it that is your own truth and your own experience, and then it will combine naturally with the truths in other disciplines for you. Do you understand? This is important.
   If you, through your own meditation practice and discipline and sharing and experimenting, find what is true for you in one discipline, it will ... ultimately work with what is true for you in another discipline, because they are both ... designated by you and experienced by you as a personal truth.
   And dogma is dogma, whether it shows up in metaphysics or Catholicism.
   You have to find what is true for you, because there are other spiritual teachings — certain Buddhist teachings — that feel that ecstasy is also beside the point. We would disagree. That is just a disagreement from this point of view, that it is a detour.
   Micciah: [Whisper] So ... we will leave you now.
   We do hope that you realize ... that the vibrancy of your commitment to your own life force, and to Spirit, is experienced as a contribution everywhere — everywhere in the web. That commitment and patience are part of why you enter the earth aspect of reality: because patience is not necessary in other dimensions — not patience or tolerance or the work toward compassion, or nonattachment — they are not issues in other dimensions. It is here, within the apparent duality, that you learn about it.
   So. We thank you for your commitment and your tolerance.
   We share with you ... much energy and much love.
   And we bid you a very good ... evening.


   Julie: That’s the end of this particular segment... of this particular adventure. And this channeling is meant to be a spiritual, emotional, intellectual, heartful, mindful journey that I share with another realm, that I share with my classes and that we all share with you.
   Please go over the material, evaluate it for yourself, and know what it is that you think about it. So long.

   Julie: “This channeling is meant to be a spiritual, emotional, intellec­tual, heartful, mindful journey that I share with another realm, that I share with my classes and that we all share with you. Please go over the material, evaluate it for yourself, and know what it is that you think about it.”