MICCIAH CHANNEL: JULIE WINTER
Produced by Jon Child
Transcript of Program 148, 1990
VIDEO NOT AVAILABLE
Some of Julie’s early work in channel from 1990 where Micciah discusses:
• Is intense intimacy between adults possible without sexuality? Starved for touch, we often sexualize nonsexual situations.
• Sexual pleasure: “a gift of Spirit.”
• Human orgasm: part of our share in the “bliss of Spirit in its own creation.”
• Sexual feeling between adults and children: incest is often a power issue, enacted sexually. Parents may transmute their need for intimacy into sexual feelings for the child. Cultures with more latitude for all sorts of touch do not have child-molesters.
• Expanding consciousness during sex: hold a belief that sexuality “ripples out ... in praise of Spirit,” then explore. “It is a kind of artistry.” Notice your intentions when making love.
Micciah: We greet you all, dear friends.
Julie: My Name is Julie Winter, and this program is called Micciah Channel.
And what you are going to see is me, going into an altered state of consciousness, a non‑ordinary state of awareness. And what I believe happens when I am in that state is that I enter an expanded geography of the self, and that there is an overlap between what I know (my intelligence, my awareness, my experience) and something that is larger than my ordinary awareness. It may indeed be that it is all part of my awareness and that would be fine. What’s produced is a personality that is a product of this overlapping and the personality is called Micciah. My voice is going to change and it is my own voice. The variations in speech have to do with my being in an altered state.
The program is created from my classes. My students bring questions in. We encourage you to do the same. And use your discernment in evaluating the information that comes through.
JoAnne: Okay. Ah — I was wondering, Micciah, if you feel it’s possible to have a truly intense, intimate relationship without sex becoming involved. Between adults. Adult peers.
Micciah: Yes! Not only that, you can have a truly sexual relationship without intimacy becoming involved.
Yes, you can. Of course you can. You — first of all — is that the end of the question?
JoAnne: No, there’s a second part.
JoAnne: The second part is: In terms of intense, intimate relationships between parents and children, is there a sexual component that becomes involved — is — you know, is it automatically unhealthy, or — where is that line, between — in that type of relationship?
Micciah: [Whisper.] All right. [Aloud.] So we will take the first question.
Micciah: Is it possible to have profound intimacy, in adult relationships, without sexuality?
First of all: because you live, in your culture, in such a state of starvation for touch, you very often sexualize or eroticize situations that have no particular need of that quality of expression. Not because you are aroused sexually, but because your physical longing for touch and tenderness and contact and soothing and pleasure has been denied. The physical realm of contact, in the way most of you were brought up; contact — intimate contact with your own bodies, intimate contact with the earth, and the pleasure of — of — body-to-body contact, and contact with each other that is loving and affectionate but not sexual: that has been [snaps fingers] truncated, yes? Cut short. Sh- sh- short-circuited.
So your bodies are desperate! They know they’re hungry, and that that electricity and pleasure is an enormous healing force. So the avenue you have been [with a laugh], paradoxically, both allowed and forbidden — just to complicate matters even more —
— is sexual! “Ah! I must have — it must be sexual feelings I have toward this person!” So you take the need for affection and transmute it into, ah — erotic feelings, to get the contact.
That is one thing that happens.
We assure you, it is quite possible to touch each other and stroke each other and hold each other without having it lead directly to sexual arousal. And that is a different kind of intimacy.
So: often, when there is closeness and you feel sexual feelings, you are transmuting a very vital need for contact into the sexual avenue, arena.
Now we will take the other position: it is also possible that in the pleasure of emotional contact real sexual feeling emerges. You then have the choice whether to enact it or not to enact it, depending on the situation and your beliefs and so forth.
Sexual pleasure, when it is held in right regard, is an enormous gift of Spirit to her physical creatures. The songs of birds, and the colors of flowers, and the scent of your own bodies, and the changes of light — everything is in the play of the possibility of that pleasure. You have an assumption, from your — what you consider to be your scientific frame of reference, that animals and flowers and so forth don’t feel anything; they just are heading right for procreation. Whatever makes you believe that?
That there cannot — there is not human love between flowers; but your view of, ah — the dance of the physical realm and its ecstasy is a very deprived view.
So: this pleasure, which in human beings is sometimes accompanied by orgasm, is — a gift from Spirit; and, ah — hopefully a song to its praise. In its praise. A prayer in its praise. A song.
That orgasm, in humans, is (we are saying “in humans” just because we are talking about humans) — is, ah — in some ways a counterpart for the vast ... ah ... bliss of Spirit in its own creation. You share a piece of it, in other words — in many ways, and in that one for sure.
There are similar states — let us say orgasmic states, or states of streaming — that occur through meditation, that occur in the opening of the energies as they rise up the spine. They are orgasmic but they are not sexual, they are not genital — so to speak.
So — can you have a relationship between adult people that is deeply intimate and not particularly sexual? Oh yes! Yes, yes. Yes. And that is also, ah — blissful, but not genitally sexual. But do you know how?
No. Not really; or, you do know — the pattern is in you as part of your greater pattern — but you may not know how: you have to experiment with how; and then sometimes, in the experiment, sexual feelings do come up, either through transmutation of other energies or because they are genuinely there, and you — get to experiment with that.
A lot of what passes as sexual intimacy is not intimacy — is really a deprivation of intimacy. A paucity of intimacy.
[Sigh.] The next part of the question: sexual feelings on the part of parents, or adults, toward children.
[Pause.] First of all, so much has come forth in recent years about incestuous relationships of all kinds; and most — most, not all — most of this material does not refer as much to sexuality as it does to an enactment that is about power that is lived out through the sexual arena. It is sexual inasmuch as it is, for sure, acted out through that means; but the impulse is not really sexual. It is about power; sometimes it is about closeness, about control; sometimes about violence; and not about sex in any way except the most concrete.
Sometimes, in the natural unfolding of a child (you know, children are full of energy, including sexual energy), a parent will pick that energy up, and be aware of it, and needs to be able to affirm the child’s growth and exploration and experimentation with their real sexuality, at whatever stage of development, while staying away from any involvement with it. This is — this is very complicated. Sometimes, in watching a child, the parent, who has been deprived in their own unfolding, starts to respond child-to-child, even though the parent is in an adult body. It’s an innocent enough impulse when it occurs in that way, and yet it is damaging to the child. Except occasionally when it is not. But sometimes what is roused in the parent and enacted sexually with the child is abusive and hateful and not really about sex. Does that make sense? Do you understand?
Students: Um-hmm ... yes.
Micciah: Sometimes the parent is in such an impoverished state that their own longing is expressed compellingly toward the child, because children are so open. This obviously is not good for the child. And then, because there is so much shame, and because a great deal of what is enacted is really brutal, there is secrecy, and the sadism of secrecy enforced over the whole situation.
Interestingly, we believe that in cultures where that original intimacy with the body, and love of one’s own body and the earth’s body and other people’s bodies — where that is explored, adults do not molest children. Children play with each other, and they play sexually as well as lots of other ways; and adults are affirming of them but not involved with them.
[Pause.] And sometimes, the sexual feelings are offered toward the child with such a sense of sadness, and the child is starved for affection, and that is the only closeness they receive. And then there is guilt, and shame, on top of that, also.
Where there is great latitude for physical affection, and a lot of ways — there are a lot of ways of touching, then the adult understanding of sexuality is very different.
Do you want to ask more about that right now?
Micciah: [Whisper.] Very well.
JoAnne: Well yes, actually; it’s — because that’s not absolutely the question I had. I was thinking more in terms of the intimate part of the relationship between the parent and child. It seems to me, given your answer to the first part, that you can have a profoundly intimate relationship between the parent and child that never in any way becomes sexual.
Micciah: Yes. Although there may be some sexual feelings, it doesn’t become sexual.
JoAnne: Yeah. Okay.
Micciah: Yes. And the more a parent takes care of her or his deep needs for touching and affection and sex, the safer the child is.
JoAnne: Mmm. Okay.
Micciah: And the needs for sex, you know, change very much. They are different individual-to-individual, and different within an individual at different phases of the life. There — you have an idea that there are — sort of — Steady, Healthy Needs. But they are so different! They are different within you, at different times — depending on other things in your life. Not obvious things like health — you know — vitality, but where your absorption is, and where your other energies are going. You have a very narrow view of what’s acceptable, what’s “healthy.”
And then oftentimes, once you find a pattern for yourself that feels “healthy,” then you want to keep enacting that pattern over and over again — because that’s the healthy one!
But you could have a number of different patterns that are — that honor your own life energies at a particular moment.
Not to mention — you have sex all mixed up with economics, and money — [sigh] and a few other complications.
Please go on.
Lucy M.: Can you talk about how two people can expand their conscious awareness from the five-sense world into the multi-sense world during sexual intercourse?
Micciah: Yes! When you include —- first of all — include in your believing that sexual contact, physical contact of that nature, ripples out as a vast creative source in praise of Spirit — when you have that believing, you change the context of your relationship. Then you are free to explore all touch, and scent, and breath, and movement as an aspect of the vast creative and loving forces playing through your body and the body of another being. You can do that in any way that you invent. It is a kind of artistry.
It takes the physical sensation and both acknowledges it as a gift from Spirit and gives it back in its fulfillment to Spirit. It also — mm — changes your biochemistry. The more conscious you become — the more you are able to link all ordinary experience to its source in Spirit (or all experience that you designate in that way) — the more your body changes, literally: your chemistry, the chemistry of your brain, the signaling of your nervous system, the vibrancy of the entire physical form.
In India, in the practice of certain forms of Yoga — of Tantra — incorporated this kind of wisdom; and so did the witches, in their way, in their understanding. And some of the Native American people, and various other peoples. So if you bring it back into your — or bring it into your experiences, you can draw upon Great Wisdom that exists in the larger body of consciousness and will come through you. (Say it’s another form of channeling.)
[Sighed whisper.] So!
[Aloud.] It is a very interesting exercise to observe your intention when you are wanting to — have sex, make love: what is needing to be expressed, what is needing to be satisfied, what is needing to be — created, through you. Sometimes, if you pay attention, you will probably find it is not a sexual need at all. Sometimes other needs are addressed, instead of sexual ones: you can’t acknowledge your sexual needs so you eat, for instance, or vice versa.
You are not in the habit of paying much attention, loving attention, to what is being needed when you wish to make love; and in America you have lots of ideas about making love, and — what is, ah — what you should be doing. It becomes another chore: put it in your appointment book. Check it off on the list. Anh — you’ve done the laundry, and you’ve gone to the gym, and — you’ve made love: good —
— that’s finished.
What is that intention representing? There — there — there is much room for heartful and mindful experimentation in this domain.
Julie: That’s the end of this particular segment... of this particular adventure. And this channeling is meant to be a spiritual, emotional, intellectual, heartful, mindful journey that I share with another realm, that I share with my classes and that we all share with you.
Please go over the material, evaluate it for yourself, and know what it is that you think about it. So long.
Julie: “This channeling is meant to be a spiritual, emotional, intellectual, heartful, mindful journey that I share with another realm, that I share with my classes and that we all share with you. Please go over the material, evaluate it for yourself, and know what it is that you think about it.”